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| fjb_saper |
 Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20766
Location: LI,NY
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| The Fifth gives me the right to be silent.... and I'll gladly share it with anybody who wants to. |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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| fjb_saper wrote: |
| The Fifth gives me the right to be silent.... and I'll gladly share it with anybody who wants to. |
The fifth of what? Tequila? Whiskey? Whisky? Bourbon? Rum?
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I am *not* the model of the modern major general. |
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| csmith28 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 1196
Location: Arizona
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I had to swear off the hard stuff. I just dring beer now. American beer the colder the better....
I know that many people think American Beer is like having sex in a canoe or in other words, "f__king close to water" but I like it. 
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Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial. |
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| Empeterson |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 125
Location: Foxboro, MA
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| csmith28 wrote: |
I had to swear off the hard stuff. I just dring beer now. American beer the colder the better....
I know that many people think American Beer is like having sex in a canoe or in other words, "f__king close to water" but I like it. |
LOL! Never heard that one before. I like it.
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IBM Certified Specialist: MQSeries
IBM Certified Specalist: Websphere MQ Integrator |
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| dgolding |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 668
Location: Switzerland
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Monty Python - Live at the Hollywood Bowl.
Please don't ask who Monty Python is  |
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| csmith28 |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 1196
Location: Arizona
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| dgolding wrote: |
Monty Python - Live at the Hollywood Bowl.
Please don't ask who Monty Python is |
Wasn't he Knighted, isn't it Sir Monty Python now? 
I've always had a pehchant for British Humor. Douglas Adams is one of my favorite authors.
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Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial. |
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| dgolding |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 668
Location: Switzerland
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I think you're thinking of Elton John
It's a bit like asking a Muslim, "Muhammed who?" or asking a Christian, "Tell me again, who's this guy Jesus?"
...of course this is only for devout Pythonists.... |
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| csmith28 |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 1196
Location: Arizona
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Actually it is closer to someone asking, "Who is Pink Floyd." when they are not a contestant on Jeopardy.
I'll take British Rock and Roll Bands that will never re-unite for $400 Alex....
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Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial. |
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| csmith28 |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 1196
Location: Arizona
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| dgolding wrote: |
| But the reason why I can buy eggs at an unattended "honesty-box" at the farm is not because the farmer has a telescopic-sighted rifle aimed at me. The system works and it is considered petty and "un-Swiss" to just steal the eggs. Switzerland is often used as an arguement by the NRA faction, but the systems aren't comparable. The rifles here ARE for the local militia, and not for personal use. It is the strong sense of civic duty and responsibility that produces the safety, not that there is a rifle poking out of every bedroom window waiting to blow away the "baddies". |
Just so you know, the Swiss are not the only ones who have a sense of Civic Duty or Right and Wrong. In some of the more Rural areas of the USA things like "honesty boxes" still exist. Indeed some people even in Urban areas when they have an abundant crop of for example Oranges will put them in a basket with a sign that says, "Free for the taking." or some such or they will donate them to a charity.
The vast majority of the civilian population (almost 300 million) of the US are not slovenly criminals lurking around for easy prey. The vast majority of civilian gun owners in the US are not criminals. Like me, I've owned a gun since I was 8 years old and I haven't commited a crime with a gun in my life. Nor have I accidently shot a anyone.
Regardless of your idealistic suggestions of passing [/b]AND[/b] enforcing legislation that would prevent criminals from acquiring firearms while at the same time disarming non-criminals as a means of reducing violent crime is ludicrous.
Even though the statistics on violent crime that I posted and you posted don't match exactly, it is apparent that in countries like Canada, the UK and Australia violent and property crimes are on the rise. The same can be said for place in the US like, the states of California, and New York as well as cities like Washington D.C., Detroit, Chicago and Boston.
Meanwhile even in a state like Arizona whos crime rates are severly impacted by illegal immigration from Mexico the violent and property crime rates have been dropping steadily as civilian firearms ownership has risen.
In some of the states that passed CCW legislation the violent Crime rate dropped as much as 20% in the year following the enactment of said legislation.
So, in some ways, your country is comparable to the what is going on here in the US as well as the UK, Canada and Australia.
Criminals are predators. Predators only hunt prey when they cannot scavenge what they want or need. When they do hunt they prefer to only attack the weak and/or defensless.
Here's a hypothetical question.
How would you feel if suddenly your government announced that, per an agreemnet between the UN, all the firearms in Switzerland were going to be collected. The UN will now install a standing army in Switzerland to provide for it's protection and civilian possession of firearms in Switzerland is now a crime.
Your personal protection and the protection of your family is now entirely in the hands of the Swis Government.
What would you do?
Would you comply?
How would you feel?
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Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial. |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20766
Location: LI,NY
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In honor of my Swiss friend I feel obligated to point out that your historical background is somewhat lacking.
Where you have all the wild west gun fighting and gun slinging stories to talk about, he will point out to the making of the Swiss nation:
A German well known litterary figure (Schiller) wrote about it in "Wilhelm Tell". Switzerland is a nation that was born in individualistic tradition but with a strong sense of community. The Swiss history well known for the traditional Swiss Guard, which survives by tradition in the Vatican. The Swiss Guards could be considered as the "Foreign Legion" before a foreign legion existed.
You might compare the Swiss Guard to mercenaries but that would be quite far from hitting the truth as in those times 15th Century, they were far more disciplined than any mercenary company would have been.
So yes the concepts work very nicely over there but might not work at all in the US , vastly due to cultural differences.
Once more let me point out that no solution is universal but it would be wrong to look at the problem only from a US centric view. Guns are not the only solution. Proof it works quite well without in other countries and they have not disappeared in gangland yet... Take Switzerland where there is a gun in every house but it is only used/worn when the citizen is either called to military service duty or to defend the country. Note as well that in Switzerland a gun in every house means a riffle and not a handgun.!
Enjoy  |
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| csmith28 |
| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 1196
Location: Arizona
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Really, my "historical background is somewhat lacking." Odd, I don't recall either myself or dgolding having brought up the topic of how Switzerland was founded but, OK, if you say so.
But unless your historical background is lacking you may recall that the United States "was born in individualistic tradition " as well. Individuals fleeing the tyranny of English rule.
The Swiss didn't have to deal with with the western frontiers of America (a whole other topic).
Oh and the Vatican, I wonder if Jesus ever envisioned having his own country (yet again, a whole other topic) protected by the Swiss Army. Odd how even Germany and Russia honored Swiss nuetrality in both World Wars. Can you say Swiss bank account?
Note: the only country that officially has Foreign Legion is France.
Did I ever say that one solution was universal?
Yeah, Switzerland, Swiss as in not to be confused with Sweden or perhaps Madagascar. They have a rifle (as in not a handgun) in every house. I got that part. As a matter of fact those rifles are select fire, as in they have a fully automatic settings and some homes in Switzerland have Shoulder Launchable Anti-Tank as well as Surface to Air Missiles.
All this time dgolding has been talking about crime in the UK and the US. Nevermind how low the violent/property crime rate is in his alledged homeland of Switzerland. How does the per capita Swiss crime rate compare to the UK or the USA?
saper, if Joe gangbanger, being broke and desperate how likely do you think it would be (stupid as Joe is) that he would attempt to break into a house that he knows, has a fully automatic rifle in it along with at least one person who knows how to use it as apposed to a house that he knows has no firearm and is full of.....
This is exaclty the point. In countries, states, cities in which civilians are prohibited from owning firearms the criminals are enboldened. They know they can do whatever they want because they will not be faced with any kind of signifigant resistance.
All a stout 15 year old needs to overwhelm a Senior Citizen is a large Screwdriver or a Section of pipe. All a rapist needs to quiet his diminutive female victim is a knife or a claw hammer.
In these places where civilians are not allowed to own a firearm the criminals know they can virtually do what ever the hell they want.
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Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial. |
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| nathanw |
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Knight
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 550
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| csmith28 wrote: |
| dgolding wrote: |
Monty Python - Live at the Hollywood Bowl.
Please don't ask who Monty Python is |
Wasn't he Knighted, isn't it Sir Monty Python now?
I've always had a pehchant for British Humor. Douglas Adams is one of my favorite authors. |
Off topic I know but you mak be interested in this
http://hitchhikers.movies.go.com/main.html
Adams had a big hand in the pre production before he died
Credited cast:
Martin Freeman (Office).... Arthur Dent (perfect for that vapid face look)
Mos Def .... Ford Prefect
Sam Rockwell .... Zaphod Beeblebrox
Zooey Deschanel .... Tricia McMillan ("Trillian")
Bill Nighy .... Slartibartfast
Warwick Davis .... Marvin the Paranoid Android
Stephen Fry .... The Book (voice) (Inspired casting)
Bill Bailey .... The Whale (voice) (Awesome)
John Malkovich .... Humma Kavula (Part created by Adams just for the film)
Alan Rickman .... Marvin the Paranoid Android (voice) (Inspired) |
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| dgolding |
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 668
Location: Switzerland
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Totally off topic and completely welcome. I am so BORED with all this gun crap.
Martin Freeman - as you say - perfect for Arthur Dent. And Alan Rickman as Marvin - I can already hear him say "Brain the size of a planet", "parking cars", "Ghastly isn't it?"
And now to switch off notifiication of replies... |
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| bower5932 |
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 27 Aug 2001
Posts: 3023
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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Well, I can't claim to have read any of Adams' books. However, I consider myself a science fiction reader. Should I make it a point to read the books? |
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| csmith28 |
| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 1196
Location: Arizona
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I recommend his works highly both the Hitchhikers Guide Series and the Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency Series.
I remember watching the original Hitchhikers Guide Series BBC Series on PBS here in the US. The special effect were hilarious and very remiscent of Dr. Who.
I also owned and played the Hitchhikers Guide Text game on an Apple IIc just after I got out of Highschool.
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Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial. |
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