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| mqjeff |
 Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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If the external customer doesn't have proof that they've sent it, then how can they expect us to prove that we didn't lose it?
It was nice, back in the day, being able to say "yes, I have an entry in my SMTP server log in which *your* SMTP server acknowledges receipt of that email with this particular monentary transaction".
If I were in a position like that with MQ and an unreliable business partner, I would put a set of exits in place to log channel traffic and message traffic at least to enough detail to provide solid indications of who lost what.
Last edited by mqjeff on Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Mr Butcher wrote: |
| no it is not that easy. what if the put iwas done by an external customer? would you call your customer asking - "hey, did you send us the xxx million euro, or did we lose it in the application or somewhere else?" |
No, you call the customer and say "show me the committed transaction log, with the successful WMQ return code, showing the system has accepted the message for delivery, and I'll investigate the apparent non-delivery"
| Mr Butcher wrote: |
| of course you would not. |
Yes I would, and I have done in the past.
| Mr Butcher wrote: |
| we do not talk about 10 euros here, we really talk about millions. many millions. and there are deadlines this has to be transfered. and they do not want to pay the interest because they failed the transfer. |
I get that. My experience is in the financial services industry and I accept that there are very large sums of money involved. I would say the same principles apply if it's 10 euros or 10 million euros; it's still missing and you'd complain if it was your 10 euros that had gone *twang* into the darkness.
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9482
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Hold on a sec as I put on my 'I nearly became an auditor' hat.
Even if the application is well-behaved, best practice and good customer service dictates that we should provide as much audit-trail as we can. Since most applications are not well-behaved, think of this as an insurance policy.
I believe it's reasonable to have channel exits (or whatever) that capture and archive inbound and outbound messages - especially when funds transfers, potential lawsuits, and government oversight are involved.
Yes, exits are a pain, cost $ or Euros, take cpu, disk space and additional admin... but customer service and lawyer avoidance has has its benefits.
Now... where's my propeller hat...
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Hold on a sec as I put on my 'I nearly became an auditor' hat. |
I'm glad the treatment worked. 
I'm aware we're sliding ever further off-topic here, and would be delighted to discuss the benefits of logging and message tracking in a new thread. So in conclusion here (and provding possible questions for the new thread):
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Even if the application is well-behaved, best practice and good customer service dictates that we should provide as much audit-trail as we can. |
My point is where do we provide it, and when does auditing become message tracking? Should you build COA & COD messages?
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| Since most applications are not well-behaved, think of this as an insurance policy. |
You'd be amazed how well behaved applications that are trusted to handle multi-million currency transactions are. But is this sort of tracking the best kind of insurance?
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| I believe it's reasonable to have channel exits (or whatever) that capture and archive inbound and outbound messages - especially when funds transfers, potential lawsuits, and government oversight are involved. |
And there's the question exactly - what is the best "whatever"? Where do you put it?
| bruce2359 wrote: |
| customer service and lawyer avoidance has has its benefits. |
Customer service I can take or leave. Legal liability can be avoided 
See you in the new thread? Anyone?
_________________
Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| bruce2359 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 9482
Location: US: west coast, almost. Otherwise, enroute.
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Once again, this points out the irony of IT work, namely: you get zero points for doing it perfectly; you negative points for doing it wrong.
And no matter what you do, it's not enough.
I'm used to it now, and feeling much better.
_________________
I like deadlines. I like to wave as they pass by.
ב''ה
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi, Lex Vivendi. As we Worship, So we Believe, So we Live. |
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