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| KevinF23492 |
 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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When and how to roll out fix packs is a choice that each site has to make based on it's own internal politics and rules
The biggest problem I have is when people sit with unsupported versions and/or combinations of software and claim that they can't upgrade because the application is 'business critical'. I don't understand how something can be business critical and yet be left out in the cold for support and improvement. 
I really don't understand what the issue is with applying fix packs (CSD's or PTF's) in my experience rolling out fix packs isn't usually a big deal, it isn't exactly rocket science, but it does require you to know what you are doing and how you are going to back it out if needed. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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I have had one occasion where the 'business' has mandated that a fix-pack was not to be applied because "it doesn't work with our software" 
With that sort of 'logic' being applied...
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| tleichen |
| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Center of the USA
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| KevinF23492 wrote: |
…
The biggest problem I have is when people sit with unsupported versions and/or combinations of software and claim that they can't upgrade because the application is 'business critical'. I don't understand how something can be business critical and yet be left out in the cold for support and improvement. |
Because management, or whoever is making the decision, is often visionless, greedy, and inept. If this surprises you, then you haven’t worked in this field very long.
| KevinF23492 wrote: |
I really don't understand what the issue is with applying fix packs (CSD's or PTF's) in my experience rolling out fix packs isn't usually a big deal, it isn't exactly rocket science, but it does require you to know what you are doing and how you are going to back it out if needed. |
You know it and I know it. But if middle management can make a big issue out of it, then it appears to their higher-ups that they are doing their jobs. Then if it becomes obvious to them that they need the fix, they can start a project to implement it. They get paid for standing in the way of progress, then they get paid for rushing to get the fix in. Neat job, huh? Now do you get it?
| exerk wrote: |
I have had one occasion where the 'business' has mandated that a fix-pack was not to be applied because "it doesn't work with our software"
With that sort of 'logic' being applied... |
Probable translation: it hasn’t been tested with their software and they are not about to take the time and resources to do it! 
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| exerk |
| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| tleichen wrote: |
| Probable translation: it hasn’t been tested with their software and they are not about to take the time and resources to do it! |
In this case they had tested it, found a problem with their software but weren't about to take the time and resources to fix it - easier to leave off the fix-pack! 
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| tleichen |
| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Center of the USA
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| exerk wrote: |
| ...In this case they had tested it, found a problem with their software but weren't about to take the time and resources to fix it - easier to leave off the fix-pack! |
But of course! Isn't it easier to blame the vendor for what are clearly your own problems (at least for as long as you can get away with it!) ? 
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| KevinF23492 |
| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Novice
Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 22
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| tleichen wrote: |
| Because management, or whoever is making the decision, is often visionless, greedy, and inept. If this surprises you, then you haven’t worked in this field very long. |
No it really doesn't surprise me anymore. I have been in this business for coming up on 30 years but I do admit to have only worked in the US for 8 of those so I guess I am relatively new to that field.
| tleichen wrote: |
| You know it and I know it. But if middle management can make a big issue out of it, then it appears to their higher-ups that they are doing their jobs. Then if it becomes obvious to them that they need the fix, they can start a project to implement it. They get paid for standing in the way of progress, then they get paid for rushing to get the fix in. Neat job, huh? Now do you get it? |
Oh sadly I got it a long time ago.  I see it everyday, people taking credit for something they didn't do and refusing all blame for something they did. Sadly that is always going to happen while the 'hire and fire' mentality is still so deeply rooted into management lore.
Anyway....we are off topic here. Sorry about that  |
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| jsware |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Chevalier
Joined: 17 May 2001
Posts: 455
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I thought when suggesting not applying fix packs it would create a can with no lid containing worms
It seems to me that different groups of people are biased based on their point of view:
IBM are biased towards rolling out the latest fixpak asap. It means more people use the latest software and idenfiy more issues
Vendors are biased towards only running their package with the version they have tested on - wiping away any "write once run anywhere" advantage Java claims to have
Business are biased towards not changing anything unless it a functional change that they want and then looking all suprised when stuff fails, asking "how can you guarantee it will never fail again" 
I am biased towards keeping up-to-date with supported versions of software (we went to broker v5 when everyone else seemed to wait and go from 2.1 straight to 6). We'll choose a fixpak to roll out and test against that. I would not routinely apply fixpaks unless there was a need. I've done this before and when they cause problems, people remember the 1 problem that occurred and not the 100s of successful upgrades.
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Regards
John
The pain of low quaility far outlasts the joy of low price. |
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| jefflowrey |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Grand Poobah
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 19981
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I've always been of the opinion that applying fixpacks regularly (with proper testing and escalation through test, uat, etc) was important in order to PREVENT future problems, rather than to solve current ones.
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| tleichen |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yatiri
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 663
Location: Center of the USA
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| scottj2512 wrote: |
IBM are biased towards rolling out the latest fixpak asap. It means more people use the latest software and idenfiy more issues
Vendors are biased towards only running their package with the version they have tested on - wiping away any "write once run anywhere" advantage Java claims to have
Business are biased towards not changing anything unless it a functional change that they want and then looking all suprised when stuff fails, asking "how can you guarantee it will never fail again"
I am biased towards keeping up-to-date with supported versions of software (we went to broker v5 when everyone else seemed to wait and go from 2.1 straight to 6). We'll choose a fixpak to roll out and test against that. I would not routinely apply fixpaks unless there was a need. I've done this before and when they cause problems, people remember the 1 problem that occurred and not the 100s of successful upgrades. |
You're right, John! What we need is a database on companies that rate them in these areas, so that those of us that are serious about careers don't waste years of time spinning our wheels working for inept visionless management!
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| tleichen wrote: |
| [those of us that are serious about careers don't waste years of time spinning our wheels working for inept visionless management! |
There are places that don't have inept, visionless management??
And these are commercial organisations????
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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