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| How do I get the mq client jars for ... |
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| mqjeff |
 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447
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You can find the jars, sure.
Can you guarantee you know exactly what version and fixpack of MQ they came from?
Can you guarantee you'll know that two years from now, when you went to five other projects and got called back to this one because something broke?
Can you guarantee that someone else hasn't decided to 'upgrade' two of the five jar files to a newer fixpack, because "well, the other ones hadn't changed in size, so they must have been the same"?
Can you guarantee that they haven't also stuck a different version of some of the jar files in a location that gets loaded by the same classloader, without knowing that they did so? |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| mqjeff wrote: |
Can you guarantee you know exactly what version and fixpack of MQ they came from?
Can you guarantee you'll know that two years from now, when you went to five other projects and got called back to this one because something broke?
Can you guarantee that someone else hasn't decided to 'upgrade' two of the five jar files to a newer fixpack, because "well, the other ones hadn't changed in size, so they must have been the same"?
Can you guarantee that they haven't also stuck a different version of some of the jar files in a location that gets loaded by the same classloader, without knowing that they did so? |
And don't forget the first time there's a problem after the admins upgrade the queue manager they'll ask all of this. Especially if they're monitoring who's using what by who has the WMQ client installed.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| SAFraser |
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Shaman
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 742
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
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I know you have not chosen this "copy the jars" path, but I'm going to tell you a story anyway, maybe it will help you make a case with your AIX client who just wants jar files.
About ten years ago, at our project inception (and before my time), jar files were simply copied. Developers put copies into the EAR files and the jar files were deployed with every new build.
In 2009, the MQ Team started a campaign to install a proper MQ client and reference the location as needed in application environments/paths.
We started by assessing the situation. We were stunned to find as many as 600+ copies of MQ jar files on a single server. We had dozens of servers like this. To determine the MQ version, we had to dig into the manifest files individually. Some were as old as 1999.
It took 18 months to get proper client installations completed. And here's the really bad thing: on some application servers, we NEVER figured out all the places that referenced those jar files and applications CONTINUED to use 1999 versions.
As my colleagues mention, it's expedient in the moment but a bad long-term strategy. I wish you good luck in guiding your management towards the best solution.  |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20763
Location: LI,NY
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Last but not least, you are more likely to get a budget for the app to review their code, when you plan for the MQ Upgrade, then when you try to fix a situation like Shirley describes....
I still hear: Why? the app is running fine! You're just making work for us for no reason. Why can't it come out of your budget?
When you get them to be used to checking the app after every MQ upgrade (mostly just do a testing run) it is much easier to have them fix what need fixing on their dime... 
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7723
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| SAFraser wrote: |
About ten years ago, at our project inception (and before my time), jar files were simply copied. Developers put copies into the EAR files and the jar files were deployed with every new build.
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Back then, that was the only way to do it. An MQ Client install did not have Java support. Your only option was to download and "install" the MA88 Support Pack, which was just the jar files.
When they added Java support into the base product, the MA88 Support Pack was deprecated, and you now had to install the full MQ Client. It could be argued that was a step backward for the Java guys who find having to install a +250 MB client full of non Java stuff a bit excessive to get functionality present in a few jar files.
I don't disagree with what anyone said here. Its the answer I give when asked - "Just install the full MQ Client." But I can see why they grumble.
Another arguement for needing to install the full MQ Client is because IBM does not explicitly say you can just copy the jar files. But I can't find anything that says you can't either. If there's a Tech Note out there, someone please post it.
The stinker is even if you do install the full MQ Client, nothing prevents the app from setting its classpath to point to its own copy of the jar files they got from who knows where, ignoring your officially installed ones.
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Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| fjb_saper |
| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 20763
Location: LI,NY
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I believe another benefit derived from the install of the full client is the ability to translate text from a different code page. Java might react differently if the code page translation table is not present and the other code page is not installed on the OS...
I found over the years that the JMS implementation is less likely to cause trouble when trying to browse a message content in a different CCSID when you have referenced a full client install instead of just the jars...
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| exerk |
| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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And it doesn't help when vendors state it as a requirement as part of the install of their software. My current site's application owners use a commercial app for monitoring 'their' queue managers and in the installation instructions it lists the jar files, by WMQ version, to be copied. Happy I am not as I had just managed to convince them to carry out full client installs.
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