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MQSeries.net Forum Index » WebSphere Message Broker (ACE) Support » asynchronous or synchronous request node?

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ktg
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: asynchronous or synchronous request node? Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Location: India

Hi All,

Is there is any disadvantage of using SOAP Asynchronous request node? Why cant we use SOAP asynchronous request node in all the places where we need to make a SOAP request? I know using the SOAP asynchronous node makes the flow bit complicated and WS addressing must be supported by the WS server.

Regards,
Kalpana
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: asynchronous or synchronous request node? Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

ktg wrote:
Hi All,

Is there is any disadvantage of using SOAP Asynchronous request node? Why cant we use SOAP asynchronous request node in all the places where we need to make a SOAP request? I know using the SOAP asynchronous node makes the flow bit complicated and WS addressing must be supported by the WS server.

Regards,
Kalpana


SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes can initiate an SSL connection but cannot receive the reply on a secure connection. The reply will be received in an unencrypted stream, therefore, if your data needs to be secure with encryption (ie. PCI data or ePHI data), do not use SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes.

Message Flows designed with SOAPRequest nodes tend to be much simpler and easier to maintain. The send and receive parts of the SOAP request can be both encrypted using SSL.
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: asynchronous or synchronous request node? Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

lancelotlinc wrote:
SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes can initiate an SSL connection but cannot receive the reply on a secure connection. The reply will be received in an unencrypted stream,

That may not be true for all levels of the product.

I do not say either way whether it IS true for all levels of the product, nor do I specifically know of a level of the product for which it is NOT true.

But that sounds like the kind of thing that would have gotten addressed by an APAR after an appropriate PMR.
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: asynchronous or synchronous request node? Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

mqjeff wrote:
lancelotlinc wrote:
SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes can initiate an SSL connection but cannot receive the reply on a secure connection. The reply will be received in an unencrypted stream,

That may not be true for all levels of the product.

I do not say either way whether it IS true for all levels of the product, nor do I specifically know of a level of the product for which it is NOT true.

But that sounds like the kind of thing that would have gotten addressed by an APAR after an appropriate PMR.


We raised a PMR and the response was that SOAP Asynchronous Replies cannot be received on an SSL connection.

If you have some inside information that you can share in which it can, please do so. Our SysAdmins don't like the fact that a non-secure port gets opened.
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

I looked up the response from IBM on the PMR:

Quote:
Hi L2

The latest customer information shows that the HTTPConnector
is registered with 2 nodes :

URLRegistration=e/WMB/Async/Response/Node/dasasasdsvc
nodeLabel='asdasasd'
outstandingRequests='0'

URLRegistration='dasasdas'
nodeLabel='dasda'
outstandingRequests='0'

These appear to be SOAPAsyncResponse nodes which are using HTTP rather than HTTPS.

This would explain why the port <yyyy> is in use, even though the
customer had not explictly requested a listener on that port.

Currently it is a limitation of the SOAPAsyncResponse node that it only
uses HTTP and not HTTPS.

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mqjeff
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

Yeah, they should have then opened an APAR to provide a fix, or given you a reason why not - i.e. that the work required was too much. And then directed you to file a requirement to address the need...
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

We can get by with the Async node because no customer data is passed back on the reply. So for us, it's not a hard requirement. It aggravates the SysAdmins because their system is not squeaky clean of unencrypted ports.
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ktg
PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Location: India

Thanks for your inputs. When it is worth to use SOAP asynchronous node - what should be the minimum response time for the SOAP request being sent?

-Kalpana
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

Kalpana - use SOAPRequest node unless there is a driving business reason not to. SOAP Asynchronous Request adds complexity to your processing. If you have no reason to use it, don't.
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ktg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Location: India

Yes Sirlancelotlinc. I too have the same opinion. But, my other team members want to use SOAP asynchronous node in all the places and make request and response handling decoupled. Their argument is, this approach improves the performance as the flow will not be waiting for the response.
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

ktg wrote:
Yes Lancelotlinc. I too have the same opinion. But, my other team members want to use SOAP asynchronous node in all the places and make request and response handling decoupled. Their argument is, this approach improves the performance as the flow will not be waiting for the response.


They should use SOAP/JMS, then.
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

Your team mates do not value simplicity. And besides that, they have no experience with which to base their opinion. You will quickly get into a situation where your flows are not maintainable. Simplicity is king.

Most downstream calls are very short duration. Within two or three seconds. This is acceptable latency.

The only way to solve this issue is to let them fail. Some developers have hard heads.

How will they solve the SSL problem on the Async reply?
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mqjeff
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand Master

Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 17447

And regardless of their opinions of the performance of the flow, the real question is what's at the front end of the flow? Is there another webservice call that's got a real human user waiting for the response?
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ktg
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Centurion

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 138
Location: India

@Sirlancelotlinc

Quote:
Simplicity is king

I agree.

Quote:
The only way to solve this issue is to let them fail.

At max, I could ask them to read this thread - expert answers

Quote:
How will they solve the SSL problem on the Async reply?

The target Webserver is not secure. It does not use SSL.

@mqjeff
Quote:
what's at the front end of the flow? Is there another webservice call that's got a real human user waiting for the response?


The webservices being called are again message flows which in turn put request message on MQ queue. Another set of message flows would pick the MQ request messages, does some database read operations and send back the MQ reply messages. The MQ response would be transformed back to SOAP response by another message flow and send the SOAP response back to the the first message flow.
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

ktg wrote:
The webservices being called are again message flows which in turn put request message on MQ queue. Another set of message flows would pick the MQ request messages, does some database read operations and send back the MQ reply messages. The MQ response would be transformed back to SOAP response by another message flow and send the SOAP response back to the the first message flow.


The good thing about this design, is they have placed database operations outside of your message flows. Smart move.
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