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ktg |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:09 am Post subject: asynchronous or synchronous request node? |
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Centurion
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 138 Location: India
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Hi All,
Is there is any disadvantage of using SOAP Asynchronous request node? Why cant we use SOAP asynchronous request node in all the places where we need to make a SOAP request? I know using the SOAP asynchronous node makes the flow bit complicated and WS addressing must be supported by the WS server.
Regards,
Kalpana |
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:04 am Post subject: Re: asynchronous or synchronous request node? |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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ktg wrote: |
Hi All,
Is there is any disadvantage of using SOAP Asynchronous request node? Why cant we use SOAP asynchronous request node in all the places where we need to make a SOAP request? I know using the SOAP asynchronous node makes the flow bit complicated and WS addressing must be supported by the WS server.
Regards,
Kalpana |
SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes can initiate an SSL connection but cannot receive the reply on a secure connection. The reply will be received in an unencrypted stream, therefore, if your data needs to be secure with encryption (ie. PCI data or ePHI data), do not use SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes.
Message Flows designed with SOAPRequest nodes tend to be much simpler and easier to maintain. The send and receive parts of the SOAP request can be both encrypted using SSL. _________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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mqjeff |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:12 am Post subject: Re: asynchronous or synchronous request node? |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 17447
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lancelotlinc wrote: |
SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes can initiate an SSL connection but cannot receive the reply on a secure connection. The reply will be received in an unencrypted stream, |
That may not be true for all levels of the product.
I do not say either way whether it IS true for all levels of the product, nor do I specifically know of a level of the product for which it is NOT true.
But that sounds like the kind of thing that would have gotten addressed by an APAR after an appropriate PMR. |
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:15 am Post subject: Re: asynchronous or synchronous request node? |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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mqjeff wrote: |
lancelotlinc wrote: |
SOAP Asynchronous Request nodes can initiate an SSL connection but cannot receive the reply on a secure connection. The reply will be received in an unencrypted stream, |
That may not be true for all levels of the product.
I do not say either way whether it IS true for all levels of the product, nor do I specifically know of a level of the product for which it is NOT true.
But that sounds like the kind of thing that would have gotten addressed by an APAR after an appropriate PMR. |
We raised a PMR and the response was that SOAP Asynchronous Replies cannot be received on an SSL connection.
If you have some inside information that you can share in which it can, please do so. Our SysAdmins don't like the fact that a non-secure port gets opened. _________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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I looked up the response from IBM on the PMR:
Quote: |
Hi L2
The latest customer information shows that the HTTPConnector
is registered with 2 nodes :
URLRegistration=e/WMB/Async/Response/Node/dasasasdsvc
nodeLabel='asdasasd'
outstandingRequests='0'
URLRegistration='dasasdas'
nodeLabel='dasda'
outstandingRequests='0'
These appear to be SOAPAsyncResponse nodes which are using HTTP rather than HTTPS.
This would explain why the port <yyyy> is in use, even though the
customer had not explictly requested a listener on that port.
Currently it is a limitation of the SOAPAsyncResponse node that it only
uses HTTP and not HTTPS. |
_________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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mqjeff |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 17447
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Yeah, they should have then opened an APAR to provide a fix, or given you a reason why not - i.e. that the work required was too much. And then directed you to file a requirement to address the need... |
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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We can get by with the Async node because no customer data is passed back on the reply. So for us, it's not a hard requirement. It aggravates the SysAdmins because their system is not squeaky clean of unencrypted ports. _________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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ktg |
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 138 Location: India
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Thanks for your inputs. When it is worth to use SOAP asynchronous node - what should be the minimum response time for the SOAP request being sent?
-Kalpana |
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Kalpana - use SOAPRequest node unless there is a driving business reason not to. SOAP Asynchronous Request adds complexity to your processing. If you have no reason to use it, don't. _________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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ktg |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 138 Location: India
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Yes Sirlancelotlinc. I too have the same opinion. But, my other team members want to use SOAP asynchronous node in all the places and make request and response handling decoupled. Their argument is, this approach improves the performance as the flow will not be waiting for the response. |
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mqjeff |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 17447
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ktg wrote: |
Yes Lancelotlinc. I too have the same opinion. But, my other team members want to use SOAP asynchronous node in all the places and make request and response handling decoupled. Their argument is, this approach improves the performance as the flow will not be waiting for the response. |
They should use SOAP/JMS, then. |
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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Your team mates do not value simplicity. And besides that, they have no experience with which to base their opinion. You will quickly get into a situation where your flows are not maintainable. Simplicity is king.
Most downstream calls are very short duration. Within two or three seconds. This is acceptable latency.
The only way to solve this issue is to let them fail. Some developers have hard heads.
How will they solve the SSL problem on the Async reply? _________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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mqjeff |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Grand Master
Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 17447
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And regardless of their opinions of the performance of the flow, the real question is what's at the front end of the flow? Is there another webservice call that's got a real human user waiting for the response? |
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ktg |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Centurion
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 138 Location: India
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@Sirlancelotlinc
Quote: |
Simplicity is king |
I agree.
Quote: |
The only way to solve this issue is to let them fail. |
At max, I could ask them to read this thread - expert answers
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How will they solve the SSL problem on the Async reply? |
The target Webserver is not secure. It does not use SSL.
@mqjeff
Quote: |
what's at the front end of the flow? Is there another webservice call that's got a real human user waiting for the response? |
The webservices being called are again message flows which in turn put request message on MQ queue. Another set of message flows would pick the MQ request messages, does some database read operations and send back the MQ reply messages. The MQ response would be transformed back to SOAP response by another message flow and send the SOAP response back to the the first message flow. |
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lancelotlinc |
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Knight
Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Posts: 4941 Location: Bloomington, IL USA
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ktg wrote: |
The webservices being called are again message flows which in turn put request message on MQ queue. Another set of message flows would pick the MQ request messages, does some database read operations and send back the MQ reply messages. The MQ response would be transformed back to SOAP response by another message flow and send the SOAP response back to the the first message flow. |
The good thing about this design, is they have placed database operations outside of your message flows. Smart move. _________________ http://leanpub.com/IIB_Tips_and_Tricks
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