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Abhi
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: EG restart while Flow is Running Reply with quote

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Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 19

Hi,

Can you please let me know a basic question. When a flow is deployed in an EG and is in running state processing data, what would be the impact of EG restart. Is there any possibility of loosing messages ?

Thanks,
Abhishek
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 4941
Location: Bloomington, IL USA

If you have messages in-flight, you need to quiesce the processing prior to deploying the flow. For example, set queue to GET DISABLE. Then deploy the flow. The act of deploying a flow is the same as an EG restart with regard to that specific flow, so I'm not sure what you intend to accomplish by EG restart?
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Vitor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: EG restart while Flow is Running Reply with quote

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Abhi wrote:
Is there any possibility of loosing messages ?


Yes. If you do the restart in a controlled manner using the proper commands, the flow(s) will complete the processing of the in-flight task(s) and close down with no issues.

If you just go banzi (use kill -9 for instance) there's a risk of message loss. How much of a risk depends on a number of factors.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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lancelotlinc wrote:
If you have messages in-flight, you need to quiesce the processing prior to deploying the flow. For example, set queue to GET DISABLE. Then deploy the flow.


No you don't.

Depending on the flow change you're making it might be a good idea, but it's not a requirement.
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Location: Bloomington, IL USA

Vitor wrote:
lancelotlinc wrote:
If you have messages in-flight, you need to quiesce the processing prior to deploying the flow. For example, set queue to GET DISABLE. Then deploy the flow.


No you don't.

Depending on the flow change you're making it might be a good idea, but it's not a requirement.


Good morning Sir Vitor. May I buy you a cup of coffee? Fall is here.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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lancelotlinc wrote:
Good morning Sir Vitor. May I buy you a cup of coffee? Fall is here.



Thanks, I'm fine and

Unless you wish to refute my statement?
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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I could yield to the concept of it's better to rather than its a requirement. At a premier credit card network, where masters are king, it seems that some messages were lost; and when we quiesced the flow, we did not loose any. We were processing in performance test about 10,000 messages per second, though. Surely this throughput is not typical and a lower throughput, say around ten messages per second, would not have the same result.
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Vitor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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It shouldn't matter if you're doing 100,000 messages a second or your 1 message a day happens to be going through a flow when you issue the deploy. The flow should finish what it's doing, be updated and then restart seamlessly. If it doesn't, and repeatably doesn't, under high loads then I'd call that a PMR. Especially if messages are being lost.

I agree that "deploy flow" and "restart EG" have nothing to do with each other, and restarting anything just because you've deployed something is futile.
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Location: Bloomington, IL USA

Vitor wrote:
It shouldn't matter if you're doing 100,000 messages a second or your 1 message a day happens to be going through a flow when you issue the deploy. The flow should finish what it's doing, be updated and then restart seamlessly. If it doesn't, and repeatably doesn't, under high loads then I'd call that a PMR. Especially if messages are being lost.

I agree that "deploy flow" and "restart EG" have nothing to do with each other, and restarting anything just because you've deployed something is futile.


Tim Dunn and Tim Kimber had recommended these actions (IBM UK Hursley Performance Lab).

I agree that the theory is: it should not matter; however, in my observation, the "workaround" was to quiesce the flow.
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Abhi
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Joined: 10 Mar 2011
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Hi,

Actually I was also relating EG restart to another phenomena. The actual scene is broker is sending Idoc messages to mySapAdapter Queues from where it is picked up sent to respective applications.

Now we have no knowlege about adapter its handled by infra team. We had deployed some new BOs to that adapter and as I'm told we need to restart the adapter to activate these BOs. There are interfaces currently running and using this adapter to send Idocs. I was just relating to QM restart and got curious as I actually didn't had the answer.

Sorry I've less info but this what I have.

Regards,
Abhishek
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lancelotlinc
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jedi Knight

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
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Location: Bloomington, IL USA

Its true that when new Business Objects are deployed, you need to restart the EG for the EG to use the new XSDs.

Funny, how your question morphed.
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Abhi
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Joined: 10 Mar 2011
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Hi,

Quote:
the "workaround" was to quiesce the flow.

But workaround you talked above is intresting.

Does it helps even in case of memory abends?
And Is restarting adapters is same restarting EG?

Regards,
Abhishek
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Vitor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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lancelotlinc wrote:
Tim Dunn and Tim Kimber had recommended these actions (IBM UK Hursley Performance Lab).


I would not presume to disagree with either Tim (and I do know where they work! )

lancelotlinc wrote:
I agree that the theory is: it should not matter; however, in my observation, the "workaround" was to quiesce the flow.


It's an interesting nugget. Any views from any other high volume users out there?
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Vitor
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Abhi wrote:
Does it helps even in case of memory abends?


Define "memory abends". And for most definitions a restart is a temporary solution until you've fixed the code that's causing it.


Abhi wrote:
And Is restarting adapters is same restarting EG?


Humph.
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