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| HubertKleinmanns |
 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: Re: What is the largest number of cluster members in cluster |
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Shaman
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 732
Location: Germany
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| kolban wrote: |
I am trying to determine how big a cluster can be. We all agree that we can have 10 queue managers in a cluster. How about 100, 1000, 10,000? What are the considerations, how many is too many? etc etc
If anyone has real world experience and is willing to share, I'd be delighted to hear. |
It depends mainly on the number pf IP connections a system can open. Each QMgr in a cluster needs two IP sockets. On the FR you must be able to handle all these connections, on PR only a part of them.
And of course to may modify the (active) channel limits.
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Hubert |
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| Pavan Kumar PNV |
| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Acolyte
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 66
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We have a production cluster with over 1100 queue managers running on about 1050 servers/LPARs and will be adding another 200 to that number. On test, we have about 1000 in another cluster.
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Pavan Pendyala
http://pavanz.blogspot.com |
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| Monk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 282
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The max number of queue managers you can have depends on the number of channels you can create based on your hardware.
But with any IBM hardware , you can have atleast 3000 queue managers in a single cluster.
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Thimk |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| Monk wrote: |
The max number of queue managers you can have depends on the number of channels you can create based on your hardware.
But with any IBM hardware , you can have atleast 3000 queue managers in a single cluster. |
From where did that snippet of information come?
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| Monk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 282
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| Quote: |
| From where did that snippet of information come? |
From inside IBM...
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Thimk |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Monk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| From where did that snippet of information come? |
From inside IBM...
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Name names, or cite sources.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| Monk wrote: |
| Quote: |
| From where did that snippet of information come? |
From inside IBM...
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The same place as only defining cluster objects (tongue firmly in cheek) in PR's?
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It's puzzling, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before...and it's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys. |
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| Monk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 282
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Well poobah,
I had to go in undetected into IBM labs to get this info..(like in Mission Impossible II ) 
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Thimk |
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| Vitor |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Grand High Poobah
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 26093
Location: Texas, USA
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| Monk wrote: |
| I had to go in undetected into IBM labs to get this info..(like in Mission Impossible II ) |
Then it's a piece of information as plausable as the film in question. 
If you'd said Mission Impossible I might have believed it more.
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Honesty is the best policy.
Insanity is the best defence. |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
Posts: 7716
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| Monk wrote: |
But with any IBM hardware , you can have atleast 3000 queue managers in a single cluster. |
My Thinkpad will support a cluster with 3000 QMs? 
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Peter Potkay
Keep Calm and MQ On |
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| PeterPotkay |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Poobah
Joined: 15 May 2001
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
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| PeterPotkay wrote: |
| ...My Thinkpad will support a cluster with 3000 QMs? |
I'll swap my T42 for yours 
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| Monk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 282
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How big can a cluster be?
There are no predefined limits to the size of a cluster. The main thing to consider is the maximum number of channels that will need to connect to your server queue managers (and also to the full repositories). If for instance, you are hosting cluster queues on a WMQ 5.3 z/OS queue manager,then the maximum number of channels is about 9000. This would give a maximum theoretical cluster size of 4500 queue managers, if each queue manager in the cluster had one channel going to the server queue manager and one channel back from the server queue manager.
If you require more queue managers than this, there are ways that this can be achieved. For example you could have more than one backend server and a customized workload balancing exit could be written to partition the work across the different servers. The internal workload algorithm will always round robin across all the servers so they would each need to cope with channels from all the clients.
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| exerk |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Jedi Council
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 6339
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| Monk wrote: |
| How big can a cluster be? |
I suppose the real answer to that lies between 'as big as necessary' and 'do you want to proliferate queue managers, or consolidate estate into as few as possible, and use client more?'.
I've heard too many times, too many business units say that they want their own infrastructure, and will not listen to reasoned argument that it is both unnecessary and expensive. bear in mind, these decisions (speaking generally) are usually made by the same people that consider their messages in Development environments to be critical (because they need them for debug purposes) but do not deem them as critical in Production, because (of course) it all works fine by then!
One site I worked at decided to separate applications by cluster - a pity a namelist eventually runs out of 'space'.
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| KeeferG |
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Master
Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 215
Location: Basingstoke, UK
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I have been involved with clusters around the 3000 queue manager mark for a clothing company several years back. There were several issue at the time, the main one being network failures and handling all the queue managers trying to connect back in at the same time.
Work was done on the product to do with timeouts on the network connections coming back in as it takes a while to process 3000 connection requests.
This was going back several years so I would expect things to have moved on somewhat by now in terms of number of queue managers per cluster.
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Keith Guttridge
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Using MQ since 1995 |
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